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Ricky
Member
297 Posts |
 Posted - 11/23/2008 : 03:59:28
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Because I am an FBA Board member, I must preface this post by saying that I'm asking this question as a Cook Team (the famous Boca Boys, who've twice taken a 1st place in brisket) and not in any official capacity.
At what point is a Backyard team considered a Pro? And should there be some mechanism in place to make that decision for a Backyard team that is reluctant to cook in the Pro division of a contest? |
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BigPigInc.
Member
USA
1335 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 05:31:30
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There's no way to enforce crossover cooking.
If a "Pro Team" wants to cross over for a low pay out and get their butt kicked by a "Backyard Team" , more power to them.
I see no reason for having two divisions other than lower entry fees that allow young teams to get ther feet wet in competition. And if a "Pro" wants to join them , they should be welcome.
Buddy
WSM
Lang 60 deelux big box
Stumps GF223p slightly modified and turbocharged
Traeger 070
Roll Tide
War Eagle
Go Blazers |
Edited by - BigPigInc. on 11/25/2008 11:51:00 |
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BigOrangeSmoker
Member
USA
5262 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 06:32:47
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AS BEING A EX-BACKYARDER THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION.WE COOKED BACKYARD FOR 5 YEARS AND THE REASON WE DID WAS SIMPLY MONEY.WE COULDNT AFFORD TO PAY THOSE HIGH ENTRY FEES.THIS OUR FIRST YEAR COOKIN WITH THE PROS AND I HAVE NO REGRETS.SOME FOLKS SAY THAT ONCE YOU WIN A CONTEST AND THERES A PAYOUT THEN YOU SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO COOK BACKYARD,I DISAGREE CAUSE I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD BE ABLE TO RECOUPE A LITTLE MONEY IF I CAN.THERE IS A CONTEST IN SMYRNA,TENNESSEE THAT WHEN YOU WIN GRANDCHAMPION YOU CAN NO LONGER COME THERE AND COOK BACKYARD.DONT KNOW AT WHAT POINT A BACKYARDER COULD BE CALLED A PRO,I DONT SEE THAT HAPPENING.YOUR A BACKYARDER OR YOUR A PRO
Off The Sauce Cookers
Stump Gf223P
FBA Member
Forum Member since 12/31/03
Huntsville,Alabama |
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shadetreebbq
Member
USA
3341 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 06:53:18
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I think you should be able to cook which ever group you want to.The pro side pays out better IF you win.The pro side has better judges.Backyard who knows who will judge your food.Maybe your low on funds and just want to cook the back yard side to have fun just because you cooked it as a pro last time should not keep you from doing it.It may even give some back yarder a reason to pickup there a game to see if they can do better than you.
Danny,
Lang 84 deluxe w/warmer and grill.
shadetreebbq@yahoo.com
shadetreebarbeque.com |
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HoocheeQue
Moderator
USA
3774 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 06:56:10
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Like Buddy says, it's hard to enforce a "no crossovers" rule. Some teams, as Phil said, just don't have the money for the higher fees, and it wouldn't be fair to keep them from competing if all they can afford is backyard. If they can pool resources and make it into one pro comp a year, so be it. But if they are winning every backyard cookoff they enter, giving no one else a chance to experience winning, they should step aside and let other teams with less experience have a shot at winning. You have to remember what the purpose of the backyard division is. I don't think one win should force a team out like at Smyrna, but 3 or 4 probably so.
Smokin' on the Hooch!
Stumps Elite 6
Chargriller Outlaw
FBA member
HoocheeQue Barbecue Team |
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oswego
Administrator
5814 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2008 : 10:20:36
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Most Backyard Teams only cook in 3 or less contests per year. Most only cook in their hometown. They cook in backyard because they have fun,its close to home and does not cost much money. A few will move up to Pro but most have no desire to ever cook Pro.
Lets say there was a rule where if they almost always win in their hometown contest, then they are told by a Sancioning body they have to cook Pro. What if they have no desire to cook pro and thus are prevented from competing in our sport.
Thats almost the same as telling Rub and many others that they have to stop competing because they win too many times.
Backyard BBQ competing is all about having fun once a year(for most) and getting bragging rights in their hometown.
There are some backyard teams that get it into their blood and compete in multiple contests per year, they are usually the ones that eventually turn Pro. But it is and should be their own decision to do so when they feel they are ready.
Then there are some teams that try the Pro side and do not place well. They then decide that Backyard is the place for them. Why should a sanctioning body prevent them from doing that when its is where they want to be. It would just stop them from competing at all.
Not all but some contest Organizers have a large number of Backyard Teams. If a Team consistantly wins that contest's backyard and the Organizer for whatever reasons decides it wants to make that team move to pro in their contest then they should make that decision.
It is the Organizers event and it is most of the time locals that cook backyard in their contests.
A Sanctioning Organization should be Organizer Friendly as well as Team Friendly and not try to impose rules where they are not wanted or needed.
I say leave it alone and let it be the Teams and Organizers decision.
Walt
Moderator
Stumps Dealer
PORK AVE BBQ
STUMPS ELITE
Stumps Platinum 5
FBA BOD
If it ain't fun don't do it |
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Big Shnoogie
Member
USA
211 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2008 : 05:34:19
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This issue is one that I have had problems with for many years. My first barbecue team was Big Shnoogie Barbecuers. A few years ago, we cooked Backyard at Stokin the Fire in Birmingham and then went to Christmas on the River in Demopolis and cooked Pro. The reason we cooked Pro was because the entry fee was the same for either side, however the Pro payouts were significantly higher. In any event, we didn't do so well and decided to return to Backyard to work on our skills. Signed up for a backyard event and were told by the KCBS Rep two days before the event that we would not be allowed to cook backyard and that we could either move up to Pro or go home. This was after I made a call to KCBS who said it was up to the organizer and the organizer said they had no objections to us cooking Backyard. KCBS Rep insisted it was his call and stuck with his ultimatum. We cooked Pro and didn't do so well again.
The Organizer of the contest and I had a long discussion about the issue and looked over the rules. KCBS rules generally have nothing to do with the Backyard division and it is left up to the organizers to decide what disqualifies a team from the Backyard. Contest now has a rule that so long as your team does not cook as a Pro within one year of the contest, you can compete in the Backyard.
Hogs and Hank Cooking Team
Currently awaiting the arrival a Stumps GF 224.
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TexEx
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 10:45:44
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Backyard????
When is Backyard not Backyard? There is a lot of interest in that subject.
I can only speak about what I know and I certainly have not been involved in all BBQ orgs.
I believe (my opinion) that there should be two types of Backyard competitions.
The first would be where the Backyard competition is sanctioned and run by the bbq association which is doing the Pros' at that event. Under this scenario the team could win every comp it ever entered and could remain a Backyard forever.
The Backyard teams would be subject to the rules of the sanctioning body including the judges and judging procedures. It would be very important that the sanctioning body have documented rules defining Backyard teams, their entry fees and possible awards, and any points earned.
I suggest that only trophies be awarded in Backyard. NO MONETARY awards should be allowed. (ok, maybe a return of entry fee limited to the GC winner only). No points should be earned toward TOTY or any other type of cumulative standing. You might assume that's already the way it is but you would be wrong. For example, looking at some rules there is absolutely no differnce between Pro and Backyard. There is no mention of not allowing Backyard to be considered for TOTY etc!
The second type of Backyard would be run by the organizer only and not sanctioned by the bbq association. I suggest it be called something other than Backyard. Maybe Amateur, Rookie, Novice, or something like that. It would not be sanctioned by the bbq association and therefore not subject to the rules of that sanctioning body. Essentialy it is an ancillary competition. The organizer would make the rules, set the fees (low is good), arrange for judging, and set the awards(again low is good). The organizer is in charge.
With these two types of Backyards available a cookteam would be able to choose how/where they want to participate in an event without concern about their status.
And finally another of my ideas. Your team should be able to enter as Pro or Backyard (but not simultaneously) at your pleasure. Just simply have a Pro team name (Rays Team) and a Backyard team name (Rays Team II). Right now I believe that could be done under current rules.
Ray
FBA Member
FBA Certified Judge
Char-Griller offset
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Sandy
Member
228 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 11:34:09
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Ray, I believe this is what just took place in Douglas.
The pros and anyone could enter the "Open?" Is that right? 
Even after the comp for the Invitational? (pro teams only)
Please correct me if I'm wrong! 
I might get it yet... 
And WELCOME to the forum Ray and Ricky!
http://www.barbecuenews.com/
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TexEx
Starting Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 14:28:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandy
Ray, I believe this is what just took place in Douglas.
The pros and anyone could enter the "Open?" Is that right?
Even after the comp for the Invitational? (pro teams only)
Please correct me if I'm wrong!
I might get it yet...
Thanks for the welcome.
I think I got off the original question by Ricky and really wandered. Sorry about that.
Yes, the "Open", as the term implies is for anyone who submits a valid entry form and the entry fee, $225, in a timely manner. First time cooker or old hand. Maximum of 100 teams.
There also was a "Backyard" comp separate from the "Open". The entry fee was $50. Maximum of 25 teams. Again there was no definition of Backyard or other qualification.
As to Ricky's question (stay backyard or go pro?), I think the entry fee and possible award should determine if a team wants to compete in Backyard or Pro. There is nothing wrong with a good Backyard team consistently winning and continuing to stay in Backyard. There should be no mechanism to force a backyard team to go Pro.
Same thing for a Pro to Backyard switch. Let the cost and reward guide the decision.
Ray
FBA Member
FBA Certified Judge
Char-Griller offset
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diamondjem
Member
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 14:42:02
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In Douglas, backyard events consist of only 2 categories, both of which can be prepared and cooked on the same day. Real backyard-ribs and chicken.
Mostly it's a grillin' contest, though it may be smoked.
"Always carry a bottle of whiskey in your pocket in case of snake bite....Always carry a snake in the other pocket" W.C. Fields
Big Dawg BBQ Team
FBA CBJ
KCBS
Tucker Cooker
Stumps GF 224P
Hasty Bake Oven/Smoker/Grill |
Edited by - diamondjem on 11/25/2008 14:45:13 |
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Ricky
Member
297 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 15:48:44
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Thanks Sandy and Walt, and thanks to everyone who replied. My own opinion on the topic, and again I must emphasize I am stating this NOT as an FBA Board member, is that once a Backyard team has won a Grand at a contest they should switch to Pro. That having been said, I can understand where Backyard teams want to stay Backyard, regardless of how many trophies they win. It's just that I think once they get that good, they should let someone else have a shot at winning. Of course, that theory falls apart at the Pro level where there's no step up for a team that consistantly wins Grand.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! |
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firewagon
Starting Member
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 16:54:20
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This subject got me to sign up on the board. I have been reading for quite awhile.
As part of a succesful backyard team, the issue of turning pro should be entirely up to the team. We( the two that pay that bills) can do well at most comps that we attend. We have won an elusive brisket trophy, several other trophies, and a couple of Grand Champions. We still cannot compete on the pro level. It simply is too expensive for us to afford. The fees,travel costs,cost of the Stumps,Cookshack,Tragers,ect. are far out of my price range.
Using some of the rational posted here, converted to let's say NASCAR, once a driver\team wins a truck race, he must move to Nationwide. Once he wins a Nationwide, he must move to Sprint series. No going back, no choice. If the driver\team cannot win at that level, get used to losing, good luck with sponsorship.
That was a big topic at Bartow. Even have a statement saying that we should be pro next year on the home page of the FBA after that contest. Lots of great cooks in pro and backyard. Let the team do what they are comfortable doing within their means.
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Edited by - firewagon on 11/25/2008 17:13:13 |
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oswego
Administrator
5814 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 17:29:45
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FireWagon
Glad you joined up and posted don't be a stranger. As to your win in Bartow,Congrats,and there is no rule in the FBA that you have to go Pro because you won a backyard contest.
If it ever comes up in the future I would hope the board members at that time have read this thread and if they have then the rules should not change.
Like I said in my post, I feel any such decisions should be left up to the Teams.
Walt
Moderator
Stumps Dealer
PORK AVE BBQ
STUMPS ELITE
Stumps Platinum 5
FBA BOD
If it ain't fun don't do it |
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diamondjem
Member
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 18:07:39
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I've cooked alot of backyard for two years prior to this one. I retooled to cook in the pro division because I was led to believe that I would have some sponsorship this year. Without a sponsor, I can't afford to cook as often as I would like. It is my hope, as Walt said, that the FBA and other organizing bodies look at this with open minds. I like to cook, first and foremost. You always want to win but that's not all that there is to it. I enjoy seeing how I stack up against the best. BUT, everything revolves around funding and if that means that I have to cook in some select Backyard events, then so be it. At least I'll be competing in some fashion. Then again, I can see where there could be some reservations about a top tier team cooking in backyard. In most cases, that would never happen, but for arguments sake, say some members of the team could not make it to a competition for a particular weekend and the rest decided to go and cook backyard, should they be allowed to cook or be penalized? I would not have a problem with it but I can see where some might. Like Ric Flair always said," To be the man, You've got to beat the man." That's what competition is all about.
"Always carry a bottle of whiskey in your pocket in case of snake bite....Always carry a snake in the other pocket" W.C. Fields
Big Dawg BBQ Team
FBA CBJ
KCBS
Tucker Cooker
Stumps GF 224P
Hasty Bake Oven/Smoker/Grill |
Edited by - diamondjem on 11/25/2008 18:08:58 |
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Big Tom
Member
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2008 : 21:04:12
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This is a really hot topic for many. My thoughts are this...
We never had the option of cooking backyard or patio in contests when we started 13+ years ago, straight out of the pan and into the fire with MIM style on-site judging and all.
As it stands now I don't know of any of the major sanctioning bodies that regulate the backyard/patio level at contests. Judging and scoring methods may be used from a host organization, but that level of the contest is not "sanctioned" and thus does not give the contest rep. jurisdiction to mandate who can/can't cook at that level.
The contests and organizers are the ones that make the rules for backyard or patio. They are contest specific and can and will vary from one contest to another.
I don't think that backyard teams should be required to move-up into "sanctioned" participation until they choose to. As I compete in the "sanctioned" contest I don't want the field to be filled by teams that were forced up.
Big Tom
Pigs-R-Us Cooking Team
Owensboro, KY division |
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